"Frenchman with a Passion: de Rosnay - the Surfer," was published in the November 1964 issue of SURFER. The intro reads, in part: "We chose not to correct the grammar in Joel's interview in order to retain the personal discussion feeling it has." No author credit is given, but the interview was likely done by SURFER publisher John Severson. This version has been slightly edited.

I began in 1957, but I used to bellyboard ever since I was ten years old. I live in Paris, 500 miles from the place where surfing started [in France]. Every year, for the summer holidays—and this for 25 years—I went to Biarritz, in the Bay of Biscay. In France, the student’s vacation lasts three months in the summer. It was fantastic for surfing, and I had a lot of time to practice. The water starts getting fairly warm in March, and we go for long weekends. With a lot of friends, we surf from March until November.

I was 13 when I heard for the first time about surf riding. I was on the beach in Biarritz, and I met a bodysurfer from California. He taught me how to bodysurf with one fin serving as a rudder. He was amazed by the kind of surf we had there, and all the time he told me fantastic stories about men riding big waves standing up on special boards. I never met him after he left, but from that time on I became attracted by this sport. I saw films from Australia, photos, and newsreels. In 1956, I saw a very good film called 

, showing the surf in Waikiki and Makaha. I think I saw it four times! At that time, I was practicing water-skiing, and snow skiing and racing for a Paris ski team. My great chance came the following year, in July, in Biarritz. I met an American film writer, Peter Viertel, who is also an enthusiastic skier. Peter came to Biarritz with Richard Zanuck to film 

, from the Hemingway novel. They saw the wild waves, and decided to send for a balsa board from California. Peter gave me my first lesson: how to wax the board and how to paddle out. Then, after a week, he left. I then met two bodysurfers from California, one had spent a few days in Hawaii, and was able to surf a little bit. They told me the position of the feet on the board. For several days, I pearl dived all the time because I was so used to bellyboarding. I was paddling too late to get the wave; desperate, I thought I was far too far in the front of the board and tried to catch the waves with half of my body in the water, even wearing fins to go faster! All this seems ridiculous now, but I had nobody to tell me what to do. I also tried rubber gloves with small pieces of rubber glued between the fingers, like a duck. This did not work, either, because the water came in and they became heavier than lead! After these little troubles, the passion of the sport got me and soon I was progressing fairly well.

How many people were surfing in Biarritz when you started?

Only three—Jacques Rott, Peter Viertel, and Georges Hennebutte. Jacques Rott lives in Dax, several miles from Biarritz. He is in the wood business, and is very sportive. He skis, plays volleyball, and practices judo. He was the first man I saw standing on a board pushed by the wave, and this sight is grooved in my memory! For a long time, Jacques had tried to surf; in ’55 he built a sort of gondola, with a turned up nose like a ski, and spent a lot of time polishing it like a varnished table. Result: at the first wave the thing was sucked down like a piece of soap going down the plug hole and Jacques went straight to the bottom! His first good board was a balsa one. He made it on the measurements he got from the author of the film 

, and tried it in 1957, the same year I began to surf. This board was 12' long, and weighed 45 pounds. Also, at this time Georges Hennebutte was trying rubber surfboards! Georges is an inventor and always has a lot of original and amusing ideas; rubber surf boats, artificial waves, surf lifts, etc. 

How did surfing become of importance in France?

For a long time, a lot of locals here have been fantastic bodysurfers. The bellyboard was introduced around the '30s, and bodysurfing just after the war. So some strong men, used to fighting 12- to 14-foot waves, were soon very taken with surf riding. Michel Barland, Andre Plumcoq, Robert Bergeruc, the Moraiz brothers, began to progress very quickly. They were joined by some rugby players, as in New Zealand and Cornwall—Pierre Laharrague, Paul Pondepeyre. Unfortunately, in ’58 we still had only about seven boards, including three balsa Malibu-type boards that Peter had ordered for him and for me. Michel Barland and Jacques Rott began to make hollow plywood boards, then balsa boards. Finally, in 1959, Michel was able to turn out the first foamies. He had a lot of trouble with bubbling plastics, and bad resins, but persevered with courage. Thanks to Michel and Jackie, the sport thus spread quicker. In September 1959, I met Carlos Dogny from Peru. He helped us a lot in founding the first club in France, the Waikiki Surf club, and in giving us the rules of the contest. After that, the kids began to enter the game, and in August 1960 we were able to hold the first National French Surfing Contest.

How would you describe surfing in France compared to what you have seen on your recent trip around the world?

When we started surfing in France, we always had a sort of complex of the famous rides we saw in the movies or from photos, at places like Rincon or Sunset. Then we discovered our own new spots; visiting surfers told us  we had fantastic conditions. After my trip, I am now persuaded that our surf can be compared with the best places in the world. And what is more, hundreds of miles of unexplored coast may well reveal some terrific new spots.

Where did you encounter the best surf on your recent trip?

Ala Moana, in Hawaii. The conditions were perfect, six-foot plus, strong offshore, but not too strong. Every morning I surfed at six o’clock; there were hardly any people out at that time. I was amazed by how shallow the water was in certain places, and could easily imagine how dangerous it could be with the big waves. We had a trip to the North Shore, as the radio report announced it was six- to eight-foot at Sunset, but the wind was too strong. However, we got some amusing surf on the inside at Chun’s reef, where Joey Cabell did a fantastic exhibition. I also had a very good surf in Secos, in California, and North Narrabeen, Australia. At Secos, I found the water so icy that I wore full-length [wetsuit] pants, and boots; this made the water tolerable, and was it also easier to walk on the rocks. The locals looked very surprised at the sight of this black frogman. I remember a really beautiful blonde girl with a very tiny bikini surfing at Secos, in spite of the temperature. I got some good rides as the waves were four- to five-foot, but the kelp played me a lot of tricks. Once my board was completely stopped and I did a beautiful “chin on the nose!”

Did you see anything that you would consider as good or better than your French surf?

I didn’t stay long enough in each country to be really able to judge the surf, but if I take a bit of what I saw and what I have seen in the movies and magazines, it seems to me difficult to find anything better than Sunset or Haleiwa, for instance. We have no problem as far as the size of the waves is concerned, as our average is four- to ten-feet, and easily reaches 18 feet. However, our surf is perhaps the most versatile in the world. Conditions can change completely with tides or winds. These tides are unbelievable, and sometimes when it is low, you have to walk a quarter of a mile out on the beach just to get to the water. The surf which seems to be most similar to ours is in Australia. Same kind of coast, sandy beaches, outside reefs, powerful swells. The beach at Manly looks exactly like La Chambre d’Amour in France, a beachbreak surf with beautiful peaks. Glassy or slight offshore until 10 a.m. just like we have in September and October.

How long have you been shooting surf photos?

Since 1959. I never had the right equipment because it is so expensive, but little by little I am getting it together. Taking surf pictures is just a hobby for me, as I have not enough time or money to spend on it. At the moment, I am preparing a thesis to be a Doctor in Science at the Institute Pasteur in Paris, and this takes up most of my time.

Do you find it difficult to shoot pictures when the surf is good?

Yes, very difficult! You always have the horrible impression that you are missing the best moment, because of the tide coming in or the wind changing. Happily, my young brother is a very good surf photographer and helps me a lot when the surf is up.

What type of people surf in France? How would you compare them with surfers you met around the world?

In France, we are still an underdeveloped country in surfing compared to what I saw in California or Australia. The surfing possibilities are fantastic, but we haven’t got any big cities near the beach, such as Los Angeles, Honolulu, Sydney, Lima, or Durban. And this is an important point. Biarritz is a very small town, a holiday resort, and really only lives three months in the year. This goes also for the other spots we discovered along the coast. From Easter until November, surfers begin to come from the big cities, Paris, Bordeaux, Dax—exactly like what happens for ski resorts. So that is why I think our beaches will never be overcrowded, like Malibu, or Sydney. In Biarritz, the experienced local surfers are still largely the same as they were five years ago, but some kids are making fantastic progress. It is curious to notice that the people who started surfing in France were between 25 and 35 years old. I was the youngest, being 19. Now the best surfers are mostly 15 and 16. The majority of them are still at school, making the most of their three-month vacation. Biarritz surfers have never tried surfing in the winter, but some of them think this is a good idea. I am sure if they do, they will make great progress. Compared with the surfers I met around the world, the French surfers have the same passion for the sport, and the same surf slang! I must also add that there are less than 300 surf club members in France, and perhaps 30 good and experienced surfers. Exactly as other countries, we have some big-wave riders, who spend the whole day waiting far outside for “one out of the blue,” or the “Pet d’Artic” as we call it, and others who are very good hotdoggers with a wide repertory of tricks.

How were you invited to Australia? [Note: de Rosnay represented France at the 1964 World Championships, in Sydney]

I was invited by on the results of the French National contest of 1963. As you know, there was [French] national title this year, owing to bad weather conditions. I had more points than any of my rivals; in full knowledge of these results, the ASA [Australian Surfing Association; host of the '64 World Championships] invited me as the logical representative of France. Needless to say, this free trip round the world gave birth to a great deal of jealousy among a small group of people, who have done their best to tarnish my reputation among the international surfers by writing false information about me. I won’t hide that I find this very disagreeable, but when you know you are in the right, then the only thing to do is to take it philosophically.

What did you think of the World Championships?

I think they were really fantastic! The organization was quite perfect, the welcome of the Australians unforgettable. I have participated in some international ski contests, and know just how difficult it is to organize something of this scale, and I want to congratulate the Aussies on doing a fabulous job. That goes also for Ampol and Qantas, who did marvels, dispatching all the foreign representatives from their country, lodging them in good hotels, and organizing endless receptions and meetings. During the heats and finals, policemen and scouts were controlling the crowd, [which was] evaluated by the newspapers to be approximately 60,000. Three TV channels [covered the event live], while surf boats and helicopters assured the security at sea. Next year the second World Surfing Titles will be organized by Peru, which will sponsor the trips of a lot of foreign representatives. The impulsion is now given throughout the world.

Do you agree or disagree with the results?

I completely agree with the results, but I must admit that during the major part of the finals I picked out Joey Cabell and Mike Doyle more than [winner] Midget Farrelly. Suddenly, just before the gun went off to announce the end of the finals, Midget took off on the best wave of the day. He was really outstanding on the wave, displaying all his knowledge of surfing in his personal and characteristic style. The judges gave him the maximum points, and I think it was the wave of his victory.

What improvements would you make to the judging system?

It is very difficult to answer. We have discussed a lot about this point, and created an International Surfing Association to precisely put together the surfing rules throughout the world. Perhaps several competitions, like in Peru, with an overall winner. The paddling races should be optional. The details of the judging can be easily surmounted, number of judges, number of competitors for each heat, duration of the events, etc. The most difficult thing is to decide, as Phil Edwards says, is “What is good?” in a surfing exhibition. Perhaps imposed figures, and improvised exhibition, as in a skating contest, could be a solution. It might be a good idea to open [the topic] in your magazine for suggestions for Championship rules. Meanwhile, I personally think that we shall have to stay pretty close to what happens in the ski world: i.e. select from national or international “classic contests”—the Makaha International, the Peru contest, the Huntington contest, the European titles—a national team for each country. The best surfers will go in team A, the kids will wait in team B to win their selection. Every year or every two years, each country would send two or three representatives of their National Team to the World Titles. All this is, of course, only given as suggestions. I think there will have to be a lot more discussion before coming to an important decision.

Where are the best surf spots in France—or are they in France, Spain, or Portugal?

The Atlantic coast of France is approximately 500 miles long from the North of Britany to Spain. Surfing is possible in good conditions in Jersey (Channel Islands), close to Brittany, in Cornwall, and in Ireland. So it is sure that good conditions prevail at the North of the Bay of Biscay; we have yet to discover these new spots. In Spain, some very good secret spots have been reported and I am sure that after the Biarritz area, Spain will soon become a surfing paradise. In Portugal, the major inconvenience is the water temperature; the coasts are far from the Gulf Stream, which brings us the warm water. However, the waves look sensational with offshore conditions prevailing during long periods. [But for now], the best spots are Biarritz, La Barre, Guethary, Hendaye, St. Jean de Luz, and Hossegor. La Barre is a pier at the mouth of the river Adour. It is a very fast left slide. A strong rip current along the pier helps to paddle out. Guethary is our major big-wave spot—the waves easily reach 15 to 20 feet. It is an outside reef going straight to the horizon, forming a point. At the top of the point, the big waves begin to break. The slide is almost always a right, with often 400-yard rides.

What types of conditions prevail throughout the year?

In the Bay of Biscay, the water temperature is around eight to 11 degrees centigrade in the winter (46 to 50 Fahrenheit), 13 to 15 in April (56 to 60), 22 to 25 in the summer (70 to 74). The heavies are rolling from September to November, with good offshore conditions in the morning, and sometimes for several days. During the period of the equinoxes, the surf can reach 15- to 20-foot. In April and May, the conditions are also very good. But the main season for all the surfers, because of the warm water and all the friends who come, is July and August. Exactly as in other countries, we are always trying several spots before staying in one definite place, driving caravans of cars for miles to have a look at the next spot. But with experience, we now begin to know what sort of conditions correspond to what sort of winds and swells. I never saw more than 20 or 30 people surfing at the same time on our popular beaches. At more difficult places like La Barre or “Sainte Barbe,” when the heavies are rolling, never more than 10 to 15.

Do you get many American and Australian surfers in Biarritz?

Yes, quite a lot and more and more every year. We learned a great deal from them. The article in the SURFER about “Le Surf France” in 1961 contributed very much to make French surfing conditions known throughout the world. I saw in the town of Biarritz some California boys with the map published by SURFER, trying to find their way to la “Cote de Basques!” Before this article, Preston Leavey came from Hawaii and taught us how to make a hotdog board. After the article, I began to receive letters from foreign correspondents asking about the conditions here. Lots of questions, also, from U.S. soldier-surfers stationed in Germany and other parts of Europe. From Hawaii, we saw Jimmy Dicker, Jan Lee, Bill Davis, Gaylord Wilcox, etc. From California—Dave Rochlen, Terry Pleasants, Beau Walker, Gudy Wilke, and Bill Cleary. From Australia—Mick Hickey, Peter Troy, Brian Cole, Bob Keenan, etc. From Peru—Carlos Dogny, Armando Vignati, Joaquin Miro Quesada.

Have they been good representatives of the sport?

Yes, very good on the average, the best being those I’ve just mentioned. They brought pictures, movies, and helped us a lot in progressing. You can see now a real difference in the young kids who have been in contact with all these very good surfers

Who would you consider to be the best surfers in France?

Among the Biarritz surfers, three stand out from the others. They are Jean-Marie Lartigau, 16, French 1963 National Junior Champion; Andre Plumcoq, 32; and Michel Barland, French 1962 National Champion. Jean-Marie is a natural surfer, strongly built. He has a very smooth style, displaying a tremendous sense of balance and timing. In small surf he is unbeatable and is very good in the big ones, too. Andre Plumcoq is the perfect athlete—during the winter he lifts weights and bicycles to keep in form. He also has a very personal style, doing his own tricks in his own way, doing it very well. Andre can be as good in the big surf as in the small. Michel Barland is a strong personality in French surfing. He makes surfboards with his friend Jacques Rott, and spends all his time, when he is not at work in his mechanical construction business, by trying new shapes of boards and discussing foam and resins. He is fantastic in big surf; he is always seen taking off on the biggest wave of the day, and goes out in tough seas, crossing the breakers like a steam boat! A good surfer, too, in the big waves, is Bernard Giese, 22, from Paris, second in the ’62 National Contest. Finally, I would also rank Philippe Gerard, 23, Arnaud de Rosnay, 18, Vice Junior Champion in 1963, and Eddy Ladd, 18, all from Paris.

How would they rank with, for example, Midget Farrelly and Joey Cabell?

You must realize that in France we are very few surfers and we only started seven years ago. So, the standard of surfing is quite low compared with other surfing countries. I can only say that some day Jean-Marie and all the young kids, especially if they surf during the winter, will be able to compete with the top surfers of the world.

How long do you think it will be before France is a major surfing power?

Perhaps three or four years. The main reason is that, as I told you before, we haven’t got any big cities on the surf. Had Paris been on the seaside, I think France might be as important as California or Australia. Another reason is that some people think of surfing in terms of touristic profit. In one way it is good, but not if it forbids the sport to spread to other places and if people who don’t really know anything about surf should want to organize it the way they want.

When do you anticipate the world contest to be held in France?

It will depend on the backing we get from airline companies and other big firms. It could take quite a long time because it would take a very big effort all round. I think if we could put the expenses together, with Jersey, Cornwall, Ireland, Spain and Portugal, it could soon be organized at the European level. However, we will have to wait a little bit before these countries, especially Spain and Portugal, become real surfing powers. Nobody knows, the sport is growing so fast that maybe [it will happen] soon.

I don’t know. Everybody would have to vote. But I would personally like it to be in Biarritz because a lot of people [in the area] would be able to organize it very well, and because the town is the real center of the sport in France, and the place where it all started.

Would the townspeople there favor a contest of this sort?

Yes, I am sure they would because of the importance it would have for the area. The publicity could be very good, and if it does not cost too much, they will help in the organization of the contest. I saw in Australia the result of the teamwork [between] the ASA and the townspeople of Manly in the organization of the world championship; it was fantastic, and a great honor for the sport. 

It is a real passion. It means friendship, liberty, holidays. I like to meet surfers from foreign countries, speak for hours about the technique of a cutback, the rip at Sunset, or the shape of boards. I like to teach young surfers, organize clubs, and [help] my friends to enjoy the sport. Be in a car with a few friends, looking for the best spot, then rush into the water to find perfect glassy conditions—this gives me terrific happiness. Surfing is a new field, almost a new way of life. I would like to think I was a sort of promoter, but not a profiteer. That kind of person comes after the promoters, and their first goal is to try and destroy their influence. I am not the slightest bit interested in making a profit from surfing; the sport for me will always remain a passion and an occasion to meet and talk with other humans, from distant countries, about the same passion. Sometimes you meet someone who will talk to you about surf, a light shining in his eyes— that’s enough, he will be a surfing friend.

Joel de Rosnay

Subscribe or Login

Subscribe or Login

Encyclopedia of Surfing

History of Surfing

Features

The Sunday Joint

Videos

Contests